From: (Thanasis Argiriou) Sender: (Yaneer Bar-Yam) To: complex-science Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:54:14 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.247] verified) by necsi.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with ESMTP id 22004174 for complex-science@necsi.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:54:02 -0400 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d31so344566and.92 for ; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:53:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=jqyVt0bEr+YENLUoKAEgtWtw/xlnvGXIj5HAtsYX1Cs=; b=glt0nyfJw7Q7LUR3p0aB3tSkNIJBuOBdgcik1HY0vgPgQYAgXrpUMGpHteo0uvBLoA ckoT/b47CLxO/9AjhXuqpxJqhzKRsy9XQh+UQ6Bz+CxeTdoXRaLlk7mYi/Nj9ReIP1m2 dj/vMF8eVZFPGCQqEsuXmxlDpNlIyxpLfNk2g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=jY4Bs+ixDXoIIoE0X8rufydxWO4YinLWTm0NbS+ggPuWJEyKvYpP4+FIlHScPY2Sen fDoq2sNq10t89teFOJaf6xtZNzD7WbVp3vSHVX9RYNcdayfv1amXrJQiNEQPyGJC43fe wUNol5Snu9BC0h80zpmzyaj7x2lOonHCZL9DI= Received: by 10.100.126.19 with SMTP id y19mr5285970anc.106.1214902435103; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.151.20 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 01:53:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Message-ID: <79285ab50807010153y2a07f494t88ca9fc6b7f27d74@mail.gmail.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:53:55 +0300 X-Original-To: complex-science@necsi.org Subject: Re: non-natural philosophy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3254_18158532.1214902435082" References: ------=_Part_3254_18158532.1214902435082 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi John, The post was my own, it was not an answer but a quesiton, to chaopsy list. But in reality it is comprised of two posts, the one is called Godel and the conscious and is until *as is Godel theorem, which disproves itself,* and the other is \Godel and the what conscious? that finishes of the subject. Today I understood of the strings and what they meant when I wrote them, though because I frget the Cantor and Godel sifes I have a probel with their correctness. I have laso a problem wirting writing so it may seem a littel hazzy the script. Send me your mail if you want and I will give you the rest of the picture of-line, cause scientific credibility of what I write can not be prooven, and I sound peculiar much more than Brian Josephson. I gues that you can work only with people who are open minded enought to view objectively and with no attractors the phenomena, which means that they are clear about their ind, the rest you approach only by asking questons, about specific subjetcts of science. Best, Thanasis 2008/7/1 : > Th: > interesting, would have liked a hint to whose post it was addressed? > JohnM > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Thanasis Argiriou > *To:* complex-science@necsi.org > *Sent:* Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:18 PM > *Subject:* non-natural philosophy > > There is a description that consciousness is at rare events consistent and > axiomatic in its behavior and when it moves towards axiomatic thesis of > consistency it has terrible time doing it, (might it also collapse?). So in > that scale one might ask why. Why it remains vague. The difficulty of > memorization could? be an example- proof of this. > A thing that changes continuously in a pattern has difficulty in changing > its pattern but the fact is why? why do we have such trouble changing > ourselves, which axiom is the axiom when axioms constantly change? > I am looking for its characteristics in order to define her. > (Characteristics I call a description beyond borders, of its phenotype, > without correlations.) > Can I ever express what I want to like the first time-unless I memorize it, > or it comes out of memory? If my ruminations are free every description will > be different and at rare times would they be of the depth I desire in order > thought is identical to expression, as to give me a sense of fulfillment. > And the question is why the different ruminations, what this means for > consciousness lying in certain margins of meanings. > > The consistency could lie in places where the theory of the noose takes > place, the base that negates itself, as is Godel theorem, which disproves > itself. > > Now to dynamics themselves, I wonder what bifurcation is indeed. You see > now in my world there exist a variety of phenomena and events which are > expressed in a multi faceted way. > There is a hypothesis I have not checked yet, and do not know if I will, > that the Greek language and therefore mostly the ancient Greek where it > derives from, is an axiomatic language, and has a similarity to logical > structuring or is of stricly logical structuring?. > Which means what in the multi faceted world were everything is connected? > > Math and Greek are of similar origin? of ancient greek origin? And if it is > ? > so? > What do math really create with their sympolism? > Possible answers? > So does have to do with Godel, dynamics with Godel? > math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel > We forgot something Greece. > We add that up. > Greece to ancient > And this is dynamics? > > "The pendulum of the mind oscillates between sense and nonsense, not > between *right and wrong"* > ** > Jung > > math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math to > dynamics > > Sense to math? > math to sense? > > we go again > > math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math to > dynamics > sense to math to Greece to ancient to math to sense to Godel to Jung? > > ancient goes to? > yes history > history to ancient to math to history to ancient > > math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math to > dynamics > sense to math to Greece to ancient to math to sense to Godel to Jung to > history to ancient to math to history to ancient to Godel to dynamics to > history to dynamics to ancient .... > > Tired. > > Does anyone want to continue with other interractions, what is the number > called ? infinite, and it comes from? > > God it sounds all Greek to me?. > > > > > If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a *fool *as > one said long ago. > But who cares about Jung, Jung thoughts were nonsense he says that the > greatest and most important problems of life are all fundamentally > insoluble. They can never be solved but only outgrown. > ? > > Wonder what growth could be... > Should I add a sense to growth to the calculation and calculation to Godel > to *fundamentally insoluble*?. > > > Best, > Thanasis, unemployed physicist, guess some kind of a fool, whatever a fool > is,( guess my Greek is better than my English) > > Ps:Should I add that up to the list? and that is which list? > and the purpose of the list to the ones subscribing to dynamics to me to > the ones who created it to me to language to purpose to sense to Godel to > logic to madness to sense to language? > ** > Sense is being... > wonder who said that? > what sense and what being? > > > ** > *Welcome to Gestalt > * > ** > > ------=_Part_3254_18158532.1214902435082 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Hi John,
 
The post was my own, it was not an answer but a quesiton, to  chaopsy list. But in reality it is comprised of two posts, the one is called Godel and the conscious and is until    as is Godel theorem, which disproves itself, and the other is \Godel and the what conscious? that finishes of the subject.
Today I understood of the strings and what they meant when I wrote them, though because I frget the Cantor and Godel sifes I have a probel with their correctness.
I have laso a problem wirting writing so it may seem a littel hazzy the script.

Send me your mail if you want and I will give you the rest of the picture of-line, cause scientific credibility of what I write can not be prooven, and I  sound peculiar much more than Brian Josephson.
I gues that you can work only with people who are open minded enought to view objectively and with no attractors the phenomena, which means that they are clear about their ind, the rest you approach only by asking questons, about specific subjetcts of science.

Best,
Thanasis
 
2008/7/1 <complex-science@necsi.org>:
Th:
interesting, would have liked a hint to whose post it was addressed?
JohnM
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:18 PM
Subject: non-natural philosophy

 There is a description that consciousness is at rare events consistent and axiomatic in its behavior and when it moves towards axiomatic thesis of consistency it has terrible time doing it, (might it also collapse?). So in that scale one might ask why. Why it remains vague. The difficulty of memorization could? be an example- proof of this. 
A thing that changes continuously in a pattern has difficulty in changing its pattern but the fact is why? why do we have such trouble changing ourselves, which axiom is the axiom when axioms constantly change?
 I am looking for its characteristics in order to define her. (Characteristics I call a description beyond borders, of its phenotype, without correlations.)
Can I ever express what I want to like the first time-unless I memorize it, or it comes out of memory? If my ruminations are free every description will be different and at rare times would they be of the depth I desire in order thought is identical to expression, as to give me a sense of fulfillment. And the question is why the different ruminations, what this means for consciousness lying in certain margins of meanings.
 
The consistency could lie in places where the theory of the noose takes place, the base that negates itself, as is Godel theorem, which disproves itself.
 
Now to dynamics themselves, I wonder what bifurcation is indeed. You see now in my world there exist a variety of phenomena and events which are expressed in a multi faceted way.
There is a hypothesis I have not checked yet, and do not know if I will, that the Greek language and therefore mostly the ancient Greek where it derives from, is an axiomatic language, and has a similarity to logical structuring or is of stricly logical structuring?.
Which means what in the multi faceted world were everything is connected?
 
Math and Greek are of similar origin? of ancient greek origin? And if it is ?
so?
What do math really create with their sympolism?
Possible answers? 
So does have to do with Godel, dynamics with Godel?
math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel
We forgot something Greece.
We add that up.
Greece to ancient
And this is dynamics?
 
"The pendulum of the mind oscillates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong"
 
Jung
 
math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math to dynamics
 
Sense to math?
math to sense?
 
we go again
 
math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math to dynamics
sense to math to Greece to ancient to math to sense to Godel to Jung?
 
ancient goes to?
yes history
history to ancient to math to history to ancient
 
math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math to dynamics
sense to math to Greece to ancient to math to sense to Godel to Jung to history to ancient to math to history to ancient to Godel to dynamics to history to dynamics to ancient ....
 
Tired.
 
Does anyone want to continue with other interractions, what is the number called ? infinite, and it comes from?
 
God it sounds all Greek to me?. 
 
 
 
 
 If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool as one said long ago.
But who cares about Jung, Jung thoughts were nonsense he says that the greatest and most important problems of life are all fundamentally insoluble. They can never be solved but only outgrown. 
?
 
Wonder what growth could be...
Should I add a sense to growth to the calculation and calculation to Godel to fundamentally insoluble?. 
 
 
Best,
Thanasis, unemployed physicist, guess some kind of a fool, whatever a fool is,( guess my Greek is better than my English)
 
Ps:Should I add that up to the list? and that is which list?
and the purpose of the list to the ones subscribing to dynamics to me to the ones who created it to me to language to purpose to sense to Godel to logic to madness to sense to language? 
 
Sense is being...
wonder who said that?
what sense and what being?
 
 
 
Welcome to Gestalt
 

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