From: (JohnM) Sender: (Yaneer Bar-Yam) To: complex-science Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:47:03 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtp118.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([66.196.96.91] verified) by necsi.org (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) with SMTP id 21991131 for complex-science@necsi.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:47:19 -0400 Received: (qmail 96574 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2008 15:47:12 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=prodigy.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=CZCpkrOpC7fxs4lIFhDvadzAAj0iZ77hZp6uya8U/3jZmBxV75EVGrOg/7DwSZ0Ycj4gWT83dv3ypb4QTVJumUajsvah35UwAnpNaTncxvg2mMbvKe5uevukIFz9m9LX3isHZXDxFMzHIoGNbHHlKyUtKyPj+l9XxXVmOVx5/5M= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JohnCompaq) (jamikes@prodigy.net@12.75.199.63 with login) by smtp118.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jun 2008 15:47:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 5UEJl.wVM1mVXmKBqfARl9VRgAaXZzKhRxV_IhUDB2MoRhGsI61tUOImxb.X0wgMbRDC9JtMqZ..YXimVif6oletxy61C5NEDE3CIkcAnB1BL9oo2wH7qFXiFEmawyiqLRlG0M130rlJISYMvDVFIzD. X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Original-Message-ID: <005301c8dac8$8baa3040$3fc74b0c@JohnCompaq> Reply-To: "JohnM" X-Original-To: References: Subject: Re: non-natural philosophy X-Original-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:46:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01C8DAA6.EB26E440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C8DAA6.EB26E440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Th: interesting, would have liked a hint to whose post it was addressed?=20 JohnM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thanasis Argiriou=20 To: complex-science@necsi.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: non-natural philosophy There is a description that consciousness is at rare events = consistent and axiomatic in its behavior and when it moves towards = axiomatic thesis of consistency it has terrible time doing it, (might it = also collapse?). So in that scale one might ask why. Why it remains = vague. The difficulty of memorization could? be an example- proof of = this.=20 A thing that changes continuously in a pattern has difficulty in = changing its pattern but the fact is why? why do we have such trouble = changing ourselves, which axiom is the axiom when axioms constantly = change? I am looking for its characteristics in order to define her. = (Characteristics I call a description beyond borders, of its phenotype, = without correlations.) Can I ever express what I want to like the first time-unless I = memorize it, or it comes out of memory? If my ruminations are free every = description will be different and at rare times would they be of the = depth I desire in order thought is identical to expression, as to give = me a sense of fulfillment. And the question is why the different = ruminations, what this means for consciousness lying in certain margins = of meanings. =20 The consistency could lie in places where the theory of the noose = takes place, the base that negates itself, as is Godel theorem, which = disproves itself. =20 Now to dynamics themselves, I wonder what bifurcation is indeed. You = see now in my world there exist a variety of phenomena and events which = are expressed in a multi faceted way. There is a hypothesis I have not checked yet, and do not know if I = will, that the Greek language and therefore mostly the ancient Greek = where it derives from, is an axiomatic language, and has a similarity to = logical structuring or is of stricly logical structuring?. Which means what in the multi faceted world were everything is = connected? =20 Math and Greek are of similar origin? of ancient greek origin? And if = it is ?=20 so? What do math really create with their sympolism? Possible answers?=20 So does have to do with Godel, dynamics with Godel? math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel=20 We forgot something Greece. We add that up. Greece to ancient And this is dynamics? =20 "The pendulum of the mind oscillates between sense and nonsense, not = between right and wrong" =20 Jung =20 math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math = to dynamics =20 Sense to math? math to sense? =20 we go again =20 math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math = to dynamics sense to math to Greece to ancient to math to sense to Godel to Jung? =20 ancient goes to? yes history history to ancient to math to history to ancient =20 math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math = to dynamics sense to math to Greece to ancient to math to sense to Godel to Jung = to history to ancient to math to history to ancient to Godel to dynamics = to history to dynamics to ancient .... =20 Tired. =20 Does anyone want to continue with other interractions, what is the = number called ? infinite, and it comes from? =20 God it sounds all Greek to me?.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a = fool as one said long ago. But who cares about Jung, Jung thoughts were nonsense he says that the = greatest and most important problems of life are all fundamentally = insoluble. They can never be solved but only outgrown.=20 ? =20 Wonder what growth could be... Should I add a sense to growth to the calculation and calculation to = Godel to fundamentally insoluble?.=20 =20 =20 Best, Thanasis, unemployed physicist, guess some kind of a fool, whatever a = fool is,( guess my Greek is better than my English) =20 Ps:Should I add that up to the list? and that is which list?=20 and the purpose of the list to the ones subscribing to dynamics to me = to the ones who created it to me to language to purpose to sense to = Godel to logic to madness to sense to language?=20 =20 Sense is being... wonder who said that?=20 what sense and what being? =20 =20 =20 Welcome to Gestalt ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C8DAA6.EB26E440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Th:
interesting, would have liked a hint to whose post it was = addressed?
JohnM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thanasis Argiriou
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 = 5:18 PM
Subject: non-natural = philosophy

 There is a description that consciousness is at rare = events=20 consistent and axiomatic in its behavior and when it moves towards = axiomatic=20 thesis of consistency it has terrible time doing it, (might it also=20 collapse?). So in that scale one might ask why. Why it remains = vague. The=20 difficulty of memorization could? be an example- proof of = this. 
A=20 thing that changes continuously in a pattern has difficulty in = changing its=20 pattern but the fact is why? why do we have such trouble changing = ourselves,=20 which axiom is the axiom when axioms constantly change?
 I am looking for its characteristics in order to define = her.=20 (Characteristics I call a description beyond borders, of its = phenotype,=20 without correlations.)
Can I ever express what I want to like the = first=20 time-unless I memorize it, or it comes out of memory? If my = ruminations are=20 free every description will be different and at rare times would they = be of=20 the depth I desire in order thought is identical to expression, as to = give me=20 a sense of fulfillment. And the question is why the different = ruminations,=20 what this means for consciousness lying in certain margins of=20 meanings.
 
The consistency could lie in places where the = theory of=20 the noose takes place, the base that negates itself, as is Godel = theorem,=20 which disproves itself.
 
Now to dynamics themselves, I wonder what bifurcation is indeed. = You see=20 now in my world there exist a variety of phenomena and events which = are=20 expressed in a multi faceted way.
There is a hypothesis I have not = checked=20 yet, and do not know if I will, that the Greek language and therefore = mostly=20 the ancient Greek where it derives from, is an axiomatic language, and = has a=20 similarity to logical structuring or is of stricly logical=20 structuring?.
Which means what in the multi faceted world were = everything=20 is connected?
 
Math and Greek are of similar = origin? of=20 ancient greek origin? And if it is ?
so?
What do math really = create=20 with their sympolism?
Possible answers? 
So does have to do = with=20 Godel, dynamics with Godel?
math of Godel to math to dynamics to = language=20 to Godel
We forgot something Greece.
We add that up.
Greece = to=20 ancient
And this is dynamics?
 
"The pendulum of the = mind=20 oscillates between sense and nonsense, not between right and=20 wrong"
 
Jung
 
math of = Godel to=20 math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math to=20 dynamics
 
Sense to math?
math to sense?
 
we = go=20 again
 
math of Godel to math to dynamics to language to = Godel to=20 Jung to math to dynamics
sense to math to Greece to ancient to math = to=20 sense to Godel to Jung?
 
ancient goes to?
yes=20 history
history to ancient to math to history to = ancient
 
math=20 of Godel to math to dynamics to language to Godel to Jung to math to=20 dynamics
sense to math to Greece to ancient to math to sense to = Godel to=20 Jung to history to ancient to math to history to ancient to Godel to = dynamics=20 to history to dynamics to ancient = ....
 
Tired.
 
Does=20 anyone want to continue with other interractions, what is the = number=20 called ? infinite, and it comes from?
 
God it sounds=20 all Greek to=20 me?. 
 
 
 
 
 If one = does not=20 understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool = as one=20 said long ago.
But who cares about Jung, Jung thoughts were = nonsense=20 he says that the greatest and most important = problems of life=20 are all fundamentally insoluble. They can never be solved but only=20 outgrown. 
?
 
Wonder what growth could=20 be...
Should I add a sense to growth to the = calculation and=20 calculation to Godel to fundamentally=20 insoluble?. 
 
 
Best,
Thanasis, = unemployed=20 physicist, guess some kind of a fool, whatever a fool is,( guess = my Greek=20 is better than my English)
 
Ps:Should I add that up = to the=20 list? and that is which list?
and the purpose of the list to the = ones=20 subscribing to dynamics to me to the ones who created it to me to = language to purpose to sense to Godel to logic to madness to sense to=20 language? 
 
Sense is being...
wonder who = said=20 that?
what sense and what=20 being?
 
 
 
Welcome to=20 Gestalt
 
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